Monday, May 3, 2010

America Bashing

I recently did something I'm not prone to do. I took offense to a comment posted to another blogs post and commented on it. The actual post was funny; the comment not. The post dealt with two separate encounters on public transit with individual delusions, one most likely mentally ill the other suffering the delusion of a conspiracy theory. The post infused the humor of being trapped with these individuals with concern for their well being. It was well done as always by this blogger. These events took place in Canada, my near neighbors to the north.

The comments by Indian Pundit in their entirety: "Indian Pundit said...

"I have five locks on my front door, but last night the CIA broke into my house and stole my make-up bag."

Hahahahaha......i cannot not stop laughing...

R u sure they are citizens of Canada??

These sort of conspiracy theories are VERY POPULAR with a large section of Americans.
They are just normal Americans who believe in all sorts of conspiracies.

"You know, you must never trust the government. There is a secret underground government, and they run everything, and the government are just puppets."

Actually this gentleman is very normal. It is one of the most popular conspiracy theories in America.

Check it out. You will be SHOCKED:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminati


May 2, 2010 9:51 PM

Indian Pundit said...

It is nothing but a by-product of corporate media and plain stupidity.

Cheers "; are offensive.

I re-read his comments a few times, but still came away with the inference that he feels the majority of Americans have delusional conspiracy theories, the reader should be "SHOCKED" by this, and that we are "plain stupid" and easily swayed by "corporate media".

I am not a flag wavier. I am well aware of this nation’s problems and idiosyncrasies. We are a nation of individuals who have brought with us our cultures, religions, histories, natures, habits and individual points of view; both good and bad. We are a nation that others still bring to our shores their cultures, religions, natures, habits, individual points of view and dreams, both good and bad; to be integrated into our nation.

We have struggled; first for recognition and independence, then unity. We struggle still with tolerance among ourselves. While the idealism of our Constitution and Bill of Rights are commendable, we as a people are NOT perfect. But then what country can claim perfection. We are individuals and as such should be judged on our own merits and foibles, NOT based on a poorly researched impression garnered from Wikipedia.

Yes I'm certain that there are some individuals so disillusioned with the current state of affairs, which are turning to and clinging to a conspiracy theory of one sort or another. It's their coping mechanism. Who am I, and for that matter who are YOU to judge how they are handling the stresses in their individual lives as well as outside stressors. Secondly what harm are they doing to or have done to you with their theories? IP I think you were trying for humor, however, do you pride yourself on humor that belittles others?

For others that like to take pot shots at Americans and their way of life:  As to our style of government, like a great ocean liner we cannot stop and turn on a dime. Each new administration inherits the results of its predecessors' work and ideologies that have been established both in the inner workings of this country and our national policies.

 Remember we came from many countries, probably some from yours.  We came from a place and or time, or political climate, where we could no longer pursue our hopes and dreams, to these shores to start anew. It would behoove the world to remember we are also your sisters and brothers in humanity.

44 comments:

Indian Pundit said...

I am a male. Not "She".Lol

Give you my reply later.

i have to go to college now.Got exams.

See you later and wait for my comments.

Cheers

Pamela Kieffer said...

I appreciate what you said.

A Woman said...

Yes IP I actually went to your site and found that out. Good luck with your exams

A Woman said...

Blue Ridge thank you and welcome to my blog.

Jo said...

Do you want to hear something weird? I was just thinking about you the other day, because I hadn't seen you for a while, and I haven't had a lot of time to visit my favorite bloggers, et voila, there you are! *heh*

I think Indian Pundit is actually a nice person, who is young and chose his words wrong, and now feels bad about it.

America does seem to be a target for blame for so much of the world's problems, and I could never understand that. People emulate America, they want to be American, they want to live there, so why "bash" them. I really don't think Indian Pundit meant to do that. I think it has become a habit all over the world to refer to anything westernized as "America". I suppose in one way it is a compliment, but in another way it can be hurtful.

I think, especially after what happened to Americans on September 11, 2001, people need to be very mindful of the fact that America has been, and continues to be, a target for extremists. Personally, I don't understand why -- but, there you go.

I don't want this incident to be a reflection on me, because I happen to think our cousins to the south are great.

But I do agree that it is not fair to "bash" anyone's country, culture, religion, etc., on a blog, and I always make a point not to do it.

Indian Pundit said...

Exams over. My reply below.

Point by point explanation and analysis

PART A:-

What i wrote:

"These sort of conspiracy theories are VERY POPULAR with a large section of Americans."
"They are just normal Americans who believe in all sorts of conspiracies."
"It is one of the most popular conspiracy theories in America."

What you wrote:

"he feels the majority of Americans have delusional conspiracy theories, "

Analysis:

You misunderstood completely.
A "a large section of Americans." does not mean "majority of Americans"

Even 10% or 30 million is a very large number.

PART B:-

What i wrote:

"Check it out. You will be SHOCKED:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminati"

What you wrote:

"reader should be "SHOCKED" by this, "

Analysis:

When i said to Jo that "Check it out. You will be SHOCKED:"
i was referring to that the "concept of Illuminati" NOT American public. In my opinion , readers should be shocked by that "concept".

i hope its clear now. Now i will discuss other points.

Indian Pundit said...

You wrote

"It would behoove the world to remember we are also your sisters and brothers in humanity."

My response

You guys are not only our sisters and brothers but also our uncles and aunts , moms and dads , sons and daughters, grandmoms and grandads....

My views on America.....

i love people no matter where they are from . Yeah i LOVE Americans. Some of my blog readers are Americans .

i love American people.
i love American ideals and values.
i love America's tremendous technological achievements.
i love American Cinema , music , women etc. Dont hate at all .

Question: Does American Government( i am NOT talking about American people) follow its OWN ideals and values when dealing with foreign countries????? No.


You judged me too early. Just by two comments . It shows some of the things which i quite hate among ALL PEOPLE which is "super patriotism"

You wrote:

""Yes I'm certain that there are some individuals so disillusioned with the current state of affairs, which are turning to and clinging to a conspiracy theory of one sort or another. It's their coping mechanism. Who am I, and for that matter who are YOU to judge how they are handling the stresses in their individual lives as well as outside stressors.""

My response:

i am a foreigner. do i have the right to judge Americans?? Do i really have it?? Answer is an EMPHATIC "YES".

Every year US State department publishes a list of international reports on various issue judging different countries and cultutes , judging different people , judging different political systems. i dont see any reason why i cannot do the same.....

You wrote:

"Secondly what harm are they doing to or have done to you with their theories?"

My response:

There is a GLOBAL CONSENSUS among almost all countries that CLIMATE CHANGE is a reality EXCEPT USA.
A major reason is these crazy conspiracy theorist who misinforms and misguides the public to a large extent.

Since 2000 , USA has single handedly prevented all climate change legislations. Thats how i am affected.

Indian Pundit said...

Lets talk about CORPORATE MEDIA in USA

1) Go to any democratic country of this world . You will find that Government fears the people.
Strangely in USA ,i find people fear the government.
Guess why????

Reason : Extreme false stories by CM-Corporate Media. Recent "fear" among some Americans about USA "census" proves my point.

2)Obama is considered to be "socialist/marxist/communist" and what not.
Fact is ,in American political spectrum . There is no left. Just the centre and right. People who Americans "think" as left are NOT LEFT AT ALL. In most countries , they will be called centrist or centre-right.Left is completely different.

Reason : Most americans are cluless about Marxism and socialism . CM takes advantage of this and makes a centrist politician look like far-left.

Conclusion:

Please. Please. Please.
Remember that criticizing American govt. policies , mass media , conspiracy theorist does not mean that he/she is Against American people.


Note 1: America's real LEFT is completely sidelined by Corporate Media. Noam Chomsky , Amy Goodman , Howard Zinn, Willian Blum, Micheal Albert , Antony Arnov
etc comprise america's Real Left.

Take care.

A Woman said...

IP: I'm off to work, I will respond later this evening or tomorrow evening, depending on how much work I bring home. I think this will be an interesting meeting of cultures, and ages. Have a good day.

Jo: This would never reflect on you. Again this is brief, I was out ill yesterday and have to rush for work. Have a wonderful day

Indian Pundit said...

"I think this will be an interesting meeting of cultures, and ages."

Hahahaha......i love these kinds of meetings. Looking forward to ur reply.

Take care.

Note: it will be quite beneficial to know whether i am chatting with a 25 year old girl or a woman of 50.

Cheers

A Woman said...

Question back...boy of 25 or man of 50? My guess? College student of 25. Your profile doesn't give a hint....but mine does. Rule out 25 for my age.

So, if you are a college student at 25, I have the plus of experience and the knowledge of the "Fire" of youth, with the wisdom of AGE. laughing

I'm on lunch and have to get back to work....have a good day. I look forward to this discussion.

Indian Pundit said...

"I have the plus of experience and the knowledge of the "Fire" of youth, with the wisdom of AGE. laughing"

Hahahaha......experiences can be a negative thing as well .

It often hinders progress because as a result of our "experiences", we are often "too aware" of dangers and "too aware" of failures that might come in our way.

It also takes away our risk taking capabilities.

But yes , wisdom is a great thing.

By the way , am i 25????

Dont make me grow up so fast.
i love to stay young.LOL

Yours Faithfully
Indian Pundit

A Woman said...

IP: I'm home and can work on my response tonight. I will take my time, as I still feel there are misunderstandings in what we are communicating. Then I will go back point by point.

In the meantime, I offer a hand across the "pond" as it were in global friendship.

A Woman said...

IP I've been to you blog, and posted comments of two of your previous posts. The one on Gandhi (rabbletv) and the other on your views of your own country and the wealthy.

By the way, I was impressed with the post on your views of the wealthy in your country and how it effects the poor of your country. You are a honorable person, with those views you will do much for your people.

Now point one: The LARGE issue:
Your original comment stated that "These sort of conspiracy theories are VERY POPULAR with a large section of Americans."

you later explained that meant "a large section of Americans." does not mean "majority of Americans"

"Even 10% or 30 million is a very large number."

My response:
10% of a population and the phrase a large section of America (which was or original statement) do not convey the same images or impressions. Yes 30 million people would seem to be large, but because you are comparing it to the whole you’ve diminished your argument. By a simple picture:
30,000,000 Delusional Americans
270,000,000 Americans Normal

Ok which is the large section? Btw I’m not convinced that 10% of Americans believe their government is out to get them. So where did you get your facts on the numbers?

When you stated a LARGE section of Americans believe in all sorts of conspiracies, you have given the impression that you believe that the section holding 90% of Americans are delusional.

If you had stated that you believe that 10% of Americans live under the delusional belief that there is a conspiracy, that means that 90% of Americans do not live under that delusion, therefore a small portion of Americans live under the delusion the government is hiding things from them or out to get them.

Indian Pundit said...

"In the meantime, I offer a hand across the "pond" as it were in global friendship."

r u offering a hand of friendship??

No worries. i am already your friend.

Friendship is a beautiful thing.No one should refuse one.LOL

Then again , u are a good friend to have. Thanks for ur comments on my blog.

Now on the question of large:

By large i basically meant a "significant section" of people.

So where did you get your facts on the numbers?

What more proof do u need??
Consider this:-

1)Obama bringing "communism/marxism" is a HUGE PROOF .

2)Global warming "fake".

3)Government control is bad and will lead to "dictatorship" etc etc.

4)Why do u think many americans store guns in large numbers in their homes????

You know very well , millions of people believe all these things.

Note:
When i wrote:

"Even 10% or 30 million is a very large number."

i was just offering it as an example. I never meant that 10% believe in such theories. i was just saying that even 10% would be considered significant or "large".

A Woman said...

Laughing...IP your are changing your arguments again. I'm am going to post my last comments on the my blog. IP there is hope for this world. BTW that is another thing experience and age teaches you HOPE :)

A Woman said...

IP on Large....let's agree to disagree. I'm an accountant. I look at sizes and numbers statistically, in comparison to each other. 10% of a population is a small amount. That would be in India 150,000,000 out of 1.5 billion.

Indian Pundit said...

"BTW that is another thing experience and age teaches you HOPE :)"

But youth adds "Change" with "Hope"."Hope" is good only when its mixed with "Change".
"Hope and Change" guess who used that to perfection??.
And dont forget to "Dream".LOL

"IP your are changing your arguments again"

Hey Linda
where did i do that??

Take care.

By the way , u have a nice name.

Cedar said...

Linda: I see a strange and interesting relationship developing here....If he asks you to adopt him think seriously about your political differences because the breakfast table could be hell in the morning. Risley

Jo said...

Oh, goodness what have I wrought??? :-)

A Woman said...

rolling on the floor laughing hysterically. Cedar...I've already had my share of children. He did say younger than 25. YIKES and he is in college...let me recover from my daughters college days.

I love your sense of humor ;)

A Woman said...

laughing Jo. Actually I'm enjoying this discussion. However, he keeps "Adjusting" his original debate on what constitutes "Large". What is the saying "The Youth keep the elders young" laughing. Actually if I don't get to bed earlier this may kill me ;)

A Woman said...

IP I know about change, believe me. I'm an expert. And in MY youth, well lets just say I was once called a "firebrand". I've had my days of protesting.

A Woman said...

Risley: He he calls me Mom...come down and rescue me..giggling.

A Woman said...

Good Lord, that was IF he calls me mom....etc

You see what lack of sleep does to the elderly...grin

Indian Pundit said...

@@ Cedar

""If he asks you to adopt him think seriously about your political differences because the breakfast table could be hell in the morning.""

Nothing of that sort will happen in the breakfast table if the food is good. LOL LOL

Also , Linda is NOT your typical "super/hyper"patriot American !!!

Thats what i think from her comments till now.

Indian Pundit said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
A Woman said...

laughing IP .... till now? what changed your mind...protesting? lol I protested the vietnam war, and for saving the earth. :)

A Woman said...

IP I know you never called me mom...I was teasing Risley..and made a typo..but corrected in the next comment.

You are a gentleman...and your customs are lovely.

Linda

Indian Pundit said...

@@Linda

A small lesson in Indian culture

Any woman who is comparable to your mother.....is usually given the same respect that u give to YOUR OWN MOM.


Any man who is comparable to your father....is usually given the same respect that u give to YOUR OWN FATHER.

If u ever visit India , and visit my home..and meet my parents.....then at least in front of them i will have to call u "Aunty"........LOL LOL

Thats the Indian way.

Note: I never called u mom. I just mentioned that in the context of universal brotherhood of humanity that i believe in as a TRUE LEFTIST.

A Woman said...

Ok not fair...I saw that IP...lol

Now I have to get back to work.

Ris..I'll call you later

Jo have a great afternoon

IP ...isn't it late there? Have a wonderful evening/day??? ;)

Indian Pundit said...

.... till now? what changed your mind...protesting?

You are not talking about things that most typical superpatriots normally talk about.

Most of them try to tell us....how "good" USA is to all other countries.......and i have fun showing them the other side LOL LOL

Indian Pundit said...

" I protested the vietnam war, and for saving the earth. :)"

Protesting against war is an honourable thing to do.
i am glad and happy to know that you did that.


But , having said that....i cannot stop myself from asking you one QUESTION:

1) When did u start protesting the Vietnam war??The day the war started in 1962 when US launched air strikes in S.Vietnam OR when American bodybags started increasing????

About 56000 to 58000 American soldiers killed.

So,when did u start protesting?

Indian Pundit said...

Check my blog tomorrow morning USA time. i am gonna post something on
"Anti-Americanism" or "Anti-Nationalism".

Cheers and thanks for tolerating me so kindly.

A Woman said...

IP In 1962 I was still a young girl. And how dare you poke at me...I protested when I was old enough to be out of the house...what have you done for your country. As far as my protesting the war..I don't need your approval or disapproval.

I will tell you that I do love my country, and yes I have the right to exercise my voice and vote in it. I don't agree with everything my country does....do you agree with everything YOURs does?

Why to do you have such anger?

Will anger heal the planet? Will it heal the people of this planet?

Your other comment regarding taunting "patriots" about what their country does nothing to heal this world, it makes others angry and destroys any hope making changes. READ HISTORY...learn from it. Violence (anger) begets Violence (anger)!

My point in telling you that I protested the war was to show you that "average" Americans do speak up and let their government know when they disapprove of things.

I raised my daughter to use her voice and vote. She spends a great deal of time reading and researching issues concerning our country. She uses the fact that ANY citizen can contact their congressman and their senator to let them know how they feel about the issues. She is on the phone right now with me and wants you to know that she exercises this right OFTEN.

To soften this, IP you say you are young, Youth is for learning, be a sponge and learn everything not just one side. Until you know all sides you are making choices in the dark.

I will leave you with wishing your day is pleasant.

L

Indian Pundit said...

"Your other comment regarding taunting "patriots" about what their country does nothing to heal this world, it makes others angry and destroys any hope making changes. READ HISTORY...learn from it. Violence (anger) begets Violence"

One simple question:

Show me one country that benefited from US "care" except Israel??

Some of the countries USA "cared" for:

1)Iraq. Saddam Hussein was an American puppet till he disobeyed american govt.

2)Pakistan.
Ronald Reagan gave 3.2 billion dollars during the 1980s to dictator Zia to carry out his "mujaheedeen" policy.Whose by-product is Taliban.

Why to do you have such anger?

Look a very clear distinction needs to be made between American "people" and American "government".

American people MUST NOT be blamed for the actions of American govt.

i have no anger against American people or patriots.

i am a patriot myself.

But i have a huge problem with "super patriots" who support ANYTHING their govt does.
Patriotism is good extreme patriotism is bad.

Indian Pundit said...

After 9/11 attacks , almost all opinion polls showed HUGE MAJORITY of people supported a military strike against Afganistan.

Then my friend , why did "support for war" decreased now??

Certainly NOT because more than a million Afghans died.You know why?

As far as "READING HISTORY" is concerned.

My response is simple:

Read Noam Chomsky

Cedar said...

IP, actually the Vietnam war started in 1959. I have been to the Vietnam Memorial in Washington, D.C. many time and have seen each and everyone of the 58000 plus names of the men and women on the wall. Some of whom were brothers of my classmates and I can remember the times the parents came to retreive them from school because the bad news had come down their sibling was dead.

I don't agree with everything this country does but just like people don't always agree with what their family doe, they are still their families and one does not allow others to bad mouth your family.

Let me remind me you that because of the U.S. outsourcing a good many tech. jobs to India your lives have improved. The U.S. has become so important to you in the tech industry that many of you actually attend classes to duplicate our way of speaking and take on American names.

The last time I called for tech support I was speaking to a man named Frank with perfect T.V. character English. Frank was excited to speak to someone from Seattle because he hoped to visit here someday. I asked what part of the country he lived now and he was born raised and never left India.

As far as your list of all the bad that America does and all the good it does...many of you non-Americans would be speaking German or Japanese if it were not for this country and of course Americans would be having high-tea if it weren't for Frence.

It's great to get a lot of knowledge at of books, but history is written by either the victor, or the badly defeated and somewhere in there is the truth.

If you want to speak out of one side of your mouth how you love Americans and out of the others how looney some Americans are...make sure you know what the hell you are talking about. Diversity my friend is what this country was founded on. Of course I am beginning to believe at times a little bit too much diversity.

Also, I am a first generation American whose family came through the front door.

A Woman said...

IP,thank you. IP anything taken to extremes is not right.

I agree that this government has made mistakes. I feel we never belonged in Iraq. I won't even go into Ronald Regan (rolling eyes) there are 3 Presidents of this country I have hated....and I hate very few people. R. Regan, Richard Nixon and Bush Jr. I wasn't fond of Bush Sr. But I am but one vote and at times one LOUD voice. They are done with their presidency, all I can do is keep trying, picking up pieces and voting and using my voice.

As in John Lennons song...imagine...imagine that we didn't need guns, battleships, nucular warheads...and I mean NO COUNTRY NEEDED them....with all that is spent by the countries of the world on arms..what could be done to save this planet and it's people. For every human sole to have a home, food, clothing, laughter and joy.

IP many of my generation felt this way and still do, we in turn passed these beliefs on to our children. There is HOPE. While I don't have any particular "Church/religion" I have spirituality...and I pray... that one day in my lifetime we will have this.

A Woman said...

Risley, Thank you. That was well written.

Indian Pundit said...

Please read my next post tomorrow morning on "Anti-Americanism" or "Anti-Nationalism" of ANY KIND.

Just for information

President Nixon sent USA's largest warship to invade India in 1971. Yes , to launch a invasion of India .

We were saved by Soviet Union. USSR sent one of its most powerful nuclear submarines armed with nukes and a few ships to save India.

On seeing this , US warship turned back and went home.

Take care.

Lots of Love
Indian Pundit

Indian Pundit said...

Check it out.

Just posted my recent article and give ur views.

Cheers

Cedar said...

IP, Richard Nixon...Indira Gandhi...I don't know. Tricky Dick left in disgace, but he still did not do the sort of harm to his own people and democracy that Gandhi appeared to have done to yours.

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